gulfscuba
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 420
| | harbison Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 222
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Reply with quote | #17 | gulfscuba: Thanks for the information. I have forwarded the following directly to Senator LeMieux:
Senator LeMieux I want to take this opportunity to personally thank you for standing behind the fisherman, recreational & commercial, of the great State of Florida. Sir, we are fighting for not only our beloved sport, but for our way of life. Florida depends on tourism. Tourist once flocked to,"The Fishing Cap. of the entire world, Florida." Now, through the use of inaccurate, statistically manipulated data, NOAA has managed to all but shut down the entire industry. Tourist are spending their billions in places they can actually catch & keep fish. Cases in point: American Red Snapper, and Amber Jack. The American Red Snapper (ARS) is flourishing in both the Gulf & Atlantic. The ARS is a predator that devours anything in sight. Sir, I am a native Floridian who has been fishing the Gulf for well over thirty years. If, as NOAA wants, this eating machine is allowed to go unchecked, very soon nothing will be left but the American Red. And then, once they destroy the bait fish population, they too will be gone. Amber Jack (AJ): Without warning & with absolutely NO justification, the Feds have closed the Amber Jack fishing to recreational fishermen. In my thirty plus years of fishing our Middle Grounds & Elbow, I have never seen as many AJ's as I am now witnessing. Virtually every off shore structure in the Gulf is overrun with this very popular ferocious fighter. Senator, these fish belong to the people. NOAA is well paid by the people to work for, not against, we the people. The Feds should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Without doubt, our fisheries must be monitored & controlled. However, we, the people of Florida, are demanding that OUR "Right to fish" be regulated by current, accurate, real time, data. Senator LeMieux, I can assure you, sir, that we the people of the once "Fishing Cap. of the entire world" will vigorously support those who, "Stand behind the fisherman." Together, we can return Florida to this States much deserved status of, "The Fishing Cap. of the Entire World." Bob |
| | groupershooter Registered: 04/25/08
Posts: 1,647
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Reply with quote | #18 | Bob,
I appreciate everything you do. You are definately very enthusiastic, actually one of the most enthusiastic I have ever known. That's a good thing. If I may I would like to state one thing to you to keep in mind as you write to the senators and congressmen.
In the future try to make one thing of the most important body with others supporting it i.e. ARS is the most important subject matter, AJ is the support of your argument. Or vice versa. Just trying to help you so when they read it they know what to attack first. If both are of equal importance you need to state that. The most important thing is you need evindence to support the main objection. You stated two subtext to the context but made them sound of equal measure and for the same reason. In fact in the argument one could argue: the overrun of AJ's is good because it will stop the overrun of ARS or vice versa. Remember if two things are one in the same they can be contrasted but if one remains the thesis and the other evidence than it is hard to contradict oneself. Just trying to help you compliment your argument. |
| | harbison Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 222
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Reply with quote | #19 | Shooter Thank you very much. I see, and agree, with what you are saying. I will make very sure to list the situation with our ARS as priority # 1. I am relatively new at this. Admittedly, I need all of the help I can get. To me, constructive criticism is a very strong learning tool. Looks like we, on this Forum, really care and are ready to fight for what is ours. Captain Mel is very pleased with the progress we are making. He let me know that my continuing support for the FRA is very good for our beloved sport. Please sir, help me to do a better job. By taking the time to critique what I am doing, you are showing that you really care about our sport. Thank you, Bob |
| | Stumpmaster
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 3,928
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Reply with quote | #20 | http://www.rapala.com/enews/erapup24/fight_to_fish/
| In June, the White House created the Interagency Oceans Policy Task Force to develop a recommendation for a national policy that ensures the protection, maintenance, and restoration of oceans, our coasts and the Great Lakes. We fear that without input from anglers, the resulting plan could lead to potential closures of sport fishing in saltwater and freshwater zones across our country.
Everyday anglers like you have provided more than $5 billion to fishery conservation (through excise taxes paid on equipment purchases), and recreational fishing generates a $125 billion annual economy in America. But there is no mention of these contributions made by the angling community in the first Task Force Report, or the potential impact this new policy could have on the future of sport fishing in America.
The report also claims to have considered a broad range of public comments, and to reflect the requests and concerns of all interested parties.
Well, it's time to speak up!
Help us ensure the future of fishing. You've heard this before, but we need you to contact your members of Congress. They need to hear, from you, that they should take into account the conservation contributions by average anglers, and the economic and social impact closures of recreational fishing areas would have.
You can get started sending email or letters (which are more effective) at KeepAmericaFishing.org. For more details, visit the Interagency Ocean Policy Task Force website.
| __________________ "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." J.W. Muller |
| | Stumpmaster
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 3,928
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Reply with quote | #21 | the post previous is from an email/newsletter I received. Yes I follow the word of Rapala.
Anyway, you may notice that this mentions both fresh and salt water angling. Some concern has been expressed that lakes and rivers supported by federal dollars may also see closures.
That is too close to home for me. __________________ "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." J.W. Muller |
| | harbison Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 222
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Reply with quote | #22 | Stump: Very interesting. Looks like the Feds are targeting all fishing. This says it all: "Well, it's time to speak up!" We are all, commercial, recreational, charter, head boat, business, etc., being targeted. Educated & united we could posses unimaginable power. Momentum is building. We only want what is ours. It is indeed:
Time to speak up!" "Reflect the request and concerns of all interested parties." What do the Feds take us for? Surely they must be joking!
Bob
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| | Stumpmaster
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 3,928
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Reply with quote | #23 | more than one way to skin a cat(fish) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125780880181039741.html
Long Island Fishing License Comes With a Colonial Catch Mr. Vorpahl Baits Judges With Old Pact; Supporters Are Hooked in the HamptonsBy CHRISTOPHER RHOADS EAST HAMPTON, N.Y. -- Stuart Vorpahl has waged a lonely battle since 1984 against the state of New York over his right to fish. For refusing to obtain a commercial fishing license, he has been arrested at least four times, once on a dock after a police officer seized 490 pounds of fluke and two lobsters from his 40-foot trawler. Mutiny on the East EndChristopher Rhoads/The Wall Street Journal Striped bass caught off Long Island's East End took their last breaths. Now, others here on Long Island's East End are joining the 69-year-old Mr. Vorpahl's cause. And they are supporting his argument, based on a 313-year-old colonial-era document, called the Dongan Patent, that conferred responsibility for town land and waterways on locally elected trustees. "I keep telling everyone, 'Your right to go fishing is right here!'" he shouts, holding up a copy of the document in his kitchen cluttered with files and books on the subject. "But the courts don't want to open this can of worms." All of his cases over the years were dismissed or ended in mistrials, largely without the judges considering the merits of the Dongan Patent. In one instance, the court was unable to form a jury because Mr. Vorpahl is too well-known. His family has lived for centuries pulling striped bass from these waters. But this time looks different. Six Long Island towns, including Southampton, Shelter Island and East Hampton, have joined in a lawsuit against the state's Department of Environmental Conservation, charging that it has no authority to require fishing licenses without their consent. At least three other towns may join. The fracas began on Oct. 1, when New York, in response to new federal policies, required for the first time that recreational anglers have a license to fish in saltwater. The state has required a commercial license since 1984. 3:26 New York has passed a law requiring recreational fishermen to get a permit, which has Long Island anglers up in arms. WSJ's Christopher Rhoads reports. Since there are many more recreational than there are commercial fishermen, the growing resistance has the feel of mutiny. Though the new recreational license costs just $10, some participants are hearing echoes of the current national debate over activist government. "People want some control over their daily lives, including their right to fish," says Eric Shultz, a retired New York City Fire Department patrol officer and a member of Southampton's Board of Trustees. "This whole fee thing is absolutely ridiculous." The state fishing license was prompted by a federal measure, passed in 2006, to more accurately measure fish populations. It requires recreational fishermen to register so they can be contacted and asked how many fish they catch. That goes into effect next year, unless states first implement their own licenses. A handful of states, including New York, this year have done that. But only in New York are fishermen fighting the matter in the courts. Most states, including New York, for years have required freshwater-fishing licenses. Christopher Rhoads/The Wall Street Journal Baymen on eastern Long Island have used dories and nets for centuries to make their living catching striped bass in the Atlantic surf. "With Stuart, it wasn't like he had created a movement or anything, so the judges could just dismiss him as a crank," says Arnold Leo, secretary of the East Hampton Baymen's Association. "But now, you've got all these towns...so this becomes much more complicated." The towns, like Mr. Vorpahl, are basing their case on the Dongan Patent. In 1686, the British governor of the royal colony of New York, Thomas Dongan, granted the patent, a kind of town charter, putting responsibility for public land and waterways in several East End towns in the hands of locally elected trustees. The New York state constitution preserved that contract in 1777, amid the War for Independence from Britain. That means, according to the current trustees, the state has no authority to impose regulation on town property, which includes the bottom of town inlets and bays. While similar patents existed throughout the colonies, the East End patent appears unique in having survived as a basis for government. It has lasted perhaps because many of the same families, called Bonackers for their original homesteads along Accabonac Creek, still live here and because it concerns fishing, their traditional livelihood. The patent "is implanted on their craniums," says Richard Barons, executive director of the East Hampton Historical Society. "Without the Bonackers, no one would've known of it." MoreThe Dec. 9, 1686, Dongan Patent, granted control over the lands and waters of East Hampton, N.Y., to a locally elected board of trustees. Now Know Ye, that I, the said Thomas Dongan, … do grant, ratify, release and confirm unto Thomas James, Captain Josiah Hobart, Capt. Thomas Talmadge, Lieut. John Wheeler, Ensign Samuel Mulford, John Mulford, Thomas Chatfield, senior, Jeremiah Conklin, Stephen Hand, Robert Dayton, Mr. Thomas Baker, and Thomas Osborn, … all the aforesaid tracts and necks of lands within the limits and bounds aforesaid, together with all and singular the Houses, Messuages, Tenaments, Buildings, Mills, Mill-dams, Fences, Inclosures, Gardens, Orchards, Fields, Pastures, Woods, Underwoods, Trees, Timber, Fencings, Commons of Pastures, Meadows, marshes, swamps, Plains, Rivers, Rivulets, Waters, Lakes, Ponds, Brooks, Streams, Beaches, Quarries, Mines, Minerals, Creeks, Harbors, Highways, and Easements, Fishing, Hawking, Hunting and Fowling, Silver and Gold Mines Excepted… And that they and their successors, by the name of the Trustees of the Freeholders and commonality of the Town of East Hampton be and shall be forever in future times, persons able and capable in law, to have, perceive, and receive and possess not only all and singular the premises, but other messuages, lands, tenements, privileges, jurisdictions, franchises, hereditaments of whatsoever kind or species, they shall be to them and their successors… The attorneys for the towns are going through a 337-page document on the subject compiled by Mr. Vorpahl after he holed up for several months during the winter of 1992 in the town library. The research cites numerous local cases won on the strength of the patent, ranging from overriding a state law prohibiting cattle herding on highways, in 1882, to placing eel pots in a local pond without a state fee, in 1952. While the towns regard the patent as a bulwark against outsiders meddling in their affairs, it paradoxically owes its existence to state, or colonial, intervention. From the moment settlers first arrived here in the 1640s, the fledgling towns struggled to stay out of the clutches of the royal colony of New York in favor of Connecticut, where they had closer economic, cultural and religious ties. Most of the original settlers to the area came from New England. Tensions with New York heightened after 1674, when the British drove the Dutch out of the colony and began imposing a more centralized form of government. But the eastern Long Islanders also realized the need to secure their titles to land under the expanding British administration. That was achieved in the 1686 patent granted by Gov. Dongan. While it empowered local government, it also had the effect of legitimizing British rule on the East End, by making land titles dependent on the royal colony, according to Peter Christoph, an editor of New York colonial-era manuscripts. It also made it easier to collect and increase property taxes. Still, eastern Long Islanders continued to resist in other ways, presaging the Revolutionary War, not to mention Mr. Vorpahl's current struggle. Stuart Vorpahl More than one judge has asked Mr. Vorpahl, he says, whether he sees himself as a modern-day version of Samuel Mulford, an East Hampton whaler active in town affairs. Nicknamed "Old Fishhook," Mr. Mulford fought for years in the early-18th century against a royal whaling license. He traveled twice to London to protest the measure directly to the king, despite repeated arrests. Mr. Vorpahl notes that the whaling license was repealed only in 1730, five years after Mr. Mulford's death. Though others have rallied to his cause, Mr. Vorpahl says nothing is a sure thing. A New York state court justice recently postponed a hearing on the matter until Nov. 19, after Sen. Charles Schumer called for the state to delay implementation of the license during the difficult economy. Last month, New York state Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's office backed out of defending the state against the suit, citing confusion over how the license is distributed and enforced. On Monday, a state assemblyman introduced legislation to replace the license with a registry program, without a fee, effective next July 1. With the matter attracting so much attention now from state officials, Mr. Vorpahl remains hopeful for some sort of ruling. "I was a lone eagle on this," he says, over the crowing of a rooster in his yard. "But I'm finally getting heard." __________________ "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." J.W. Muller |
| | groupershooter Registered: 04/25/08
Posts: 1,647
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Reply with quote | #24 | Stump, as much as you and I haven't gotten along I must say you do pose a threat to the overreach of authority. You do overwhelmingly believe in what's going on in other aspects. I must say though. You are an honest man.
I believe in all that you do, you are one of the few, who do it honestly. You want to help through government and you want to believe in it honestly and I believe you to be a poster for a good samaritan for an actual advocate for conservation through government. I know it sounds like I'm condemning you but I'm not. I do not want to sound like that at all. I want to point out that if you are willing to see where the government is off its base than all should be willing to see. I want to point out that you do seem to seek out the truth and if it benefits your cause you will support it (for or without your employer). Correct me if I'm wrong, you support the fishery, not the government. I will stand next to you (known adversaries of each other) and scream at the top of my lungs to stop the madness.
Stump, people like you are a missing piece to our puzzle. Without the legitamacy of someone like yourself we sound like "just another opposition". We will not stand together in many things political but if we stand together in this than surely the penalty chosen for us, as citizens, is worse than the cause.
For everyone else: realize what is happening. What you enjoy most is going to go away if you do not stand up. If you recognize this as part of a political protest than so-be-it, but it's not. Your world of sunny blue sky's will come to a screaching hault if you don't start paying attention. It starts with fishing and moves inward from there. Stay tuned. Watch. |
| | gulfscuba
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 420
| | harbison Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 222
| | Stumpmaster
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 3,928
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Reply with quote | #27 | Fishing is a sport, a lifestyle, and a right-not a privilege.
Groupershooter, we may see many things differently and our politics may be opposites (and may not) but this is just too much. The thought of anyone-government, monopoly, or czar- thinking they can control who gets to fish. Not just who keeps fish, but who gets to go, well that is absurd.
This is not an overnight situation, I've said it before that the apathy of the general public (and fishermen) has allowed way too much control to slip away to those we gave it to, if even in absentia.
I have always fished, I have always stood up for the sport. It has nothing to do with my employer either, as a private citizen I have the right to oppose anything I do not like, and I have done so in the past; once I almost got fired, when the newspaper automatically added my official title, (just because they knew me so well) to my letter to the editor in support of an FWCC fishing program facing the budget ax. I still wrote my feelings even against the governor at the time.
I am always looking for the truth, and I still believe we need a change from the old politics, the old way of doing business, this is opening the eyes and ears through protests and hopefully, getting the the public officials to listen to facts/reason will make a difference in how the rules are made.
As a wise person once said, "the truth is out there". __________________ "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age." J.W. Muller |
| | TheOtherLine
Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 461
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Reply with quote | #28 |
I am actively involved in Rubio's campaign and I just want you to know that, unlike Crist, Marco does NOT have the staff and field coordinators necessary to keep him on top of all inquiries that come from the citizenry.
It's all about funding and as he raises more money, he will be able to create a bigger team and that team will be better able to quickly respond to questions like yours.
Having said that, if you don't get an answer from him in a reasonable period of time, let me know. I may be able to get it routed for you.
PLEASE do not go off on him. He is a genuinely good guy who is on the road 5-6 days a week.
http://marcorubionews.com/mr_brochure_2009-09-14.pdf __________________ "I never met a man on his deathbed who wished he had spent more time in the office" |
| | harbison Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 222
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Reply with quote | #29 |
Let's do all we can to get Mr. Rubio on our side. Hopefully, once he familiarizes himself with the situation, he will join us. Thanks for the help. Bob |
| | jameswisner Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 235
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Reply with quote | #30 |
"Appears" is the operant word here.
Must be an election coming up! Notice how nicely Senator Lemieux has set up his youtube page with all of the pertinent video bites posted that pander for votes. How convenient.
Remember this is the senate seat Charlie Crist is running for. Senator Lemieux was Governor Crist's last campaign manager and although Lemieux was not the best pick for interim senator that Governor Crist could have made Lemieux was still hand picked by Governor Charlie Crist to be the Florida interim senator until the 2010 election when Governor Crist is running for the Senate seat Lemieux currently holds.
Charlies Crist appointed his campaign manager Lemieux to the interim Senate seat. Lemieux's youtube video soundbites are just a sleazy way for Lemieux to campaign for Charlie Crist. Don't be fooled by Lemieux's and Crist's slight of hand video bite tactics. Governor Crist said he was going to do a lot of things when he was elected Governor but in reality he has done nothing.
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